123 replies to this topic

[TimePeriod]

I see on countless topics, again and again people refer to these "competitive" players, who are they and why do their opinions account for 95% of everyone own opinion!? Why is everybody so goddamn obsessed with what 'Mechs and equipment they are using!?

These "competitive" players only account for 5% of the total player population yet I see countless topics which makes it appear like its only their voices which can be heard, relocating the rest of the player base (which makes up the bulk of players) into the backyard!

Nearly nobody players competitively, so stop using them as a reference! Friggen hell man!

Does this have to account for my groceries shopping too? Am I forced to buy all the high end expensive products just because 5% of everybody else is doing it too!?

Go ahead, ridicule me and talk all the trash you want, I don't give a damn. At least I am not a zombie like so many others on this pathetic filthy excuse of a forum.

"Nuuuhhh! I want to be a competitive player! Waaahhhh! Just so I can run around and stomp nuubs in CW! Make my epeen look huuuggeee like the others in CW!"

(TL:DR How can 5% of the total player population dictate how the rest of the 95% should be playing? They don't and anyone playing the "competitive"-card should toss their friggen computer into a fire)

[Y E O N N E]

I like made up statistics...

But, to spell it out for you, if you have a balanced game at the highest levels of play where player skill is only a marginal variable, you have one at all other levels, too. Contrary to what you seem to believe, that competitive play is all about monotony, people are obsessed over competitive play because if it's monotonous there it means there's a problem with the game. The last thing the competitive scene wants is monotony or easy mode.

[Monkey Lover]

Everything i see from pgi has been to nerf units/groups and competitive players when ever the solo + buddy player has any issues. So, these topics really dont matter.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 29 February 2016 - 12:05 PM.

[Adiuvo]

That you think CW represents competitive play says it all.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Trickle-down effect.

If there is a cheesy strategy, OP build, or dominant tactic it's often discovered by the top 10% of the playerbase first where it then diffuses throughout the rest of the community.

Where do you think all the broken meta-builds come from? The underhive? The actual top units are usually crawling up PGI's *** to tell them "hey, this sh!ts broke, fix it."

I don't know where all this "the comp crowd says" stuff comes from.

[Uncl Munkeh]

Adiuvo, on 29 February 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

That you think CW represents competitive play says it all.

Yep.

Clue?

None.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 February 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

I like made up statistics...

But, to spell it out for you, if you have a balanced game at the highest levels of play where player skill is only a marginal variable, you have one at all other levels, too. Contrary to what you seem to believe, that competitive play is all about monotony, people are obsessed over competitive play because if it's monotonous there it means there's a problem with the game. The last thing the competitive scene wants is monotony or easy mode.

Actually despite faint protestations to the contrary, quite a few demonstrate through word and deed that they do want clearly defined monotonous metas, as so many cry over ideas to actually balance things.

Your average comp it's no robin hood. Concerned with the greater good and Health of the game, but their own epeen, and the easiest way to inflate if.

Mind though, not saying all are, but a shocking number, yes.

Otherwise, I largely agree with your post

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 February 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Actually despite faint protestations to the contrary, quite a few demonstrate through word and deed that they do want clearly defined monotonous metas, as so many cry over ideas to actually balance things.

Your average comp it's no robin hood. Concerned with the greater good and Health of the game, but their own epeen, and the easiest way to inflate if.

Mind though, not saying all are, but a shocking number, yes.

Otherwise, I largely agree with your post

Well, there are always a few rotten apples. I dunno how many or how often you've dropped with comp units or players, but most that I've played with are actually pretty good people.

[Coolant]

TimePeriod, on 29 February 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

These "competitive" players only account for 5% of the total player population

While I agree that the majority of the player population probably wouldn't be considered "competitive", I do wonder how you arrived at the 5%? That is being very specific. Are you arbitrarily throwing around figures to make a point? Or do you have actual factual data you can refer to, and if so, where is the link? If you can't I would refrain from specific numbers in future posts because it makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about when called on it.

Edited by Coolant, 29 February 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Coolant, on 29 February 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

While I agree that the majority of the player population probably wouldn't be considered "competitive", I do wonder how you arrived at the 5%? That is being very specific. Are you arbitrarily throwing around figures to make a point? Or do you have actual factual data you can refer to, and if so, where is the link? If you can't I would refrain from specific numbers in future posts because it makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about when called on it.

Also depends are we talking"comp" mentality, or legitimate comp players, who thh I would guesstimate at closer to 1-2%?

Plenty of wannabe Tryhards, but I find the legit 228, EMP, etc tier player scarcer than honest politicians.

Tier 1 sure don't mean a dang thing in that regard. that's fo dang sho!

[Aresye]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 February 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

Well, there are always a few rotten apples. I dunno how many or how often you've dropped with comp units or players, but most that I've played with are actually pretty good people.

He hasn't ever dropped in a comp unit. If he did, he would realize that most comp units prefer in-house practices, or scrims against other units, rather than easily beating every team in group queue and/or mindlessly blasting pugs in CW.

Never mind the fact that most of the best new player resources have come from the comp scene.
Never mind the fact that EmP holds an open night each week for all players wanting to get better at the game.
Never mind the fact that almost no top teams actively participate in CW, the easiest mode of all.

He is right about one thing though. It is about epeen. Where he's wrong is in his assumption that we get epeen boosts by beating up on lesser players, which is quite literally the opposite of an epeen boost, as you can only claim you're the best when you actually beat the best.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 February 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

Plenty of wannabe Tryhards, but I find the legit 228, EMP, etc tier player scarcer than honest politicians.

Yeah, top end players are a very small percentage of the population unfortunately, I wish more people were at this level

Aresye, on 29 February 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

Where he's wrong is in his assumption that we get epeen boosts by beating up on lesser players

Well, to be fair there are some good units that actually prefer this, but those aren't that common.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 February 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye, on 29 February 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

He hasn't ever dropped in a comp unit. If he did, he would realize that most comp units prefer in-house practices, or scrims against other units, rather than easily beating every team in group queue and/or mindlessly blasting pugs in CW.

Never mind the fact that most of the best new player resources have come from the comp scene.
Never mind the fact that EmP holds an open night each week for all players wanting to get better at the game.
Never mind the fact that almost no top teams actively participate in CW, the easiest mode of all.

He is right about one thing though. It is about epeen. Where he's wrong is in his assumption that we get epeen boosts by beating up on lesser players, which is quite literally the opposite of an epeen boost, as you can only claim you're the best when you actually beat the best.

Gonna call B'S. Most may not, but the old LORDs crew loved a good pugfarming foray. And your PEEFsmash types live for instaepeen gratification.

I have not dropped as part of a Comp unit, no. Against plenty, and individually with plenty comp players your superior. And as noted, forum posts, from notable Tryhards. So as I said, MOST might be the altruitic mother Teresa's you claim, but not all, not by a long shot.

Seriously, read what is said, get past your knee-jerk reaction where You think any negative comment about ANY tryhard is somehow an indictment I Tryhards nation, ok?

[Lykaon]

Monkey Lover, on 29 February 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

Everything i see from pgi has been to nerf units/groups and competitive players when ever the solo + buddy player has any issues. So, these topics really dont matter.

Yeah,seriously the OP needs not worry.

If you are not in a unit do not group don't have any idea what competitive organized gameplay is like don't worry PGI is spoon feeding you. and ussually at the expense of the very players you think are being a threat to your ideals.

[Aresye]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 February 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Gonna call B'S. Most may not, but the old LORDs crew loved a good pugfarming foray. And your PEEFsmash types live for instaepeen gratification.

I have not dropped as part of a Comp unit, no. Against plenty, and individually with plenty comp players your superior. And as noted, forum posts, from notable Tryhards. So as I said, MOST might be the altruitic mother Teresa's you claim, but not all, not by a long shot.

Okay, so why the constant slander against anything and everything comp related, whether it be the meta, PGI's tournament, graphics settings, etc, when YOU yourself say it's only a few bad eggs?

Btw, the Lords of old are long gone. The new Lords are still a formidable team, but the whole "ggclose" attitude and mindset has been gone for over a year now. Even EmP, comprised of many former Lords players, has moved past those days, as they now actually somewhat care about their reputation.

And when you say, "Against plenty, and individually with plenty comp players your superior," I assume you mean, "I've randomly ran into them on plenty of occasions." That's not dropping with them. I'm talking about how many times you've actually been on TS with these teams, gone to a Church of Skill meetup, or joined any of the many comp teams for open practice nights?

I'm pretty sure that's been a big fat ZERO times for you, otherwise you'd realize that the same players you tend to vilify at each and every opportunity you get, actually aren't so bad.

So you haven't really ever dropped with comp players, your mech got touched in a bad place by Lords over a year ago, and therefore every comp player is a douche. Got it.

[Y E O N N E]

CSJa are the current bad eggs, and even then I'm fairly certain it's just one player in particular.

[Tarogato]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 February 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Gonna call B'S. Most may not, but the old LORDs crew loved a good pugfarming foray. And your PEEFsmash types live for instaepeen gratification.

I have not dropped as part of a Comp unit, no. Against plenty, and individually with plenty comp players your superior. And as noted, forum posts, from notable Tryhards. So as I said, MOST might be the altruitic mother Teresa's you claim, but not all, not by a long shot.

Seriously, read what is said, get past your knee-jerk reaction where You think any negative comment about ANY tryhard is somehow an indictment I Tryhards nation, ok?

It's the loud and obnoxious ones like PEEFsmash, old Lords, etc etc that tend to draw all the ire. Some of that quality still floats around with EmP, CSJ, and current Lord players, but most competitive players (see SJR, SRS, AS, QQ, etc) tend not to bring such attention to themselves and there are probably just as many attention whоres in the underhive. And to be frank, nobody I talk to actually likes peef anymore, probably because of reasons you put above.

[Lily from animove]

TimePeriod, on 29 February 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

I see on countless topics, again and again people refer to these "competitive" players, who are they and why do their opinions account for 95% of everyone own opinion!? Why is everybody so goddamn obsessed with what 'Mechs and equipment they are using!?

These "competitive" players only account for 5% of the total player population yet I see countless topics which makes it appear like its only their voices which can be heard, relocating the rest of the player base (which makes up the bulk of players) into the backyard!

Nearly nobody players competitively, so stop using them as a reference! Friggen hell man!

Does this have to account for my groceries shopping too? Am I forced to buy all the high end expensive products just because 5% of everybody else is doing it too!?

Go ahead, ridicule me and talk all the trash you want, I don't give a damn. At least I am not a zombie like so many others on this pathetic filthy excuse of a forum.

"Nuuuhhh! I want to be a competitive player! Waaahhhh! Just so I can run around and stomp nuubs in CW! Make my epeen look huuuggeee like the others in CW!"

(TL:DR How can 5% of the total player population dictate how the rest of the 95% should be playing? They don't and anyone playing the "competitive"-card should toss their friggen computer into a fire)

because those 5% know how the game works better than those other 95%.

because I better trust one of these 0,01% of the world population designing my house because they are architects than the other 99,9% who do NOT KNOW anything about building a house from an architecural engineering point of view.


THATS WHY.

Surely the needs of the competitives should not outweight the needs of the casuals, because then you miss 95% of your target audience as a game devloper. But dammit you can't use the average Joe casual for "balancing" the game because they have mostly no idea how the systems of a game work. They will give wrong feedback and bad suggestions about "balance" which then would lead to false adjustmens and this plays into the hands of those undertsanding the system and min maxing te crap out of the imbalanced system.

Adiuvo, on 29 February 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

That you think CW represents competitive play says it all.

CW is competitive, just not on a pilot skill competition level. CW is a social or RVR like competition level, where the organisation of a group (and the skill to gather, maintain and coordinate these) matters as competitive factor.

[TKSax]

Tarogato, on 29 February 2016 - 05:15 PM, said:

It's the loud and obnoxious ones like PEEFsmash, old Lords, etc etc that tend to draw all the ire. Some of that quality still floats around with EmP, CSJ, and current Lord players, but most competitive players (see SJR, SRS, AS, QQ, etc) tend not to bring such attention to themselves and there are probably just as many attention whоres in the underhive. And to be frank, nobody I talk to actually likes peef anymore, probably because of reasons you put above.

Here's the funny thing, I have had the chance to hang out with PEEF since he has come back, and you quickly learn that a lot of what Peef Does he is not even serious about and its more just an act that he has fun with, he is a pretty decent guy on TeamSpeak. Now you have more current info than I have about Peef I have not been on TS with him in a few months. Like Aresye I have spent time among a lot of the comp teams, and I have also said many times they on TeamSpeak they are just like you and I.

Also a lot of people also need to remember the most of the Comp Players do not even bother with the formus, and in fact this Thread is an anomaly with the amount of actualy Comp players that are responding.

Edited by TKSax, 01 March 2016 - 06:14 AM.

[NextGame]

TimePeriod, on 29 February 2016 - 11:54 AM, said:

I see on countless topics, again and again people refer to these "competitive" players, who are they and why do their opinions account for 95% of everyone own opinion!? Why is everybody so goddamn obsessed with what 'Mechs and equipment they are using!?

These "competitive" players only account for 5% of the total player population yet I see countless topics which makes it appear like its only their voices which can be heard, relocating the rest of the player base (which makes up the bulk of players) into the backyard!

Nearly nobody players competitively, so stop using them as a reference! Friggen hell man!

Does this have to account for my groceries shopping too? Am I forced to buy all the high end expensive products just because 5% of everybody else is doing it too!?

Go ahead, ridicule me and talk all the trash you want, I don't give a damn. At least I am not a zombie like so many others on this pathetic filthy excuse of a forum.

"Nuuuhhh! I want to be a competitive player! Waaahhhh! Just so I can run around and stomp nuubs in CW! Make my epeen look huuuggeee like the others in CW!"

(TL:DR How can 5% of the total player population dictate how the rest of the 95% should be playing? They don't and anyone playing the "competitive"-card should toss their friggen computer into a fire)

Most changes that have been made to MWO are anti-competitive, because mechs and mechanics in MWO have been ever more homegenised and they trend towards trying to eliminate any selective advantage a player might have via builds, playing methods etc.

in short, MWO currently caters to scrub casuals more than ever before.

Edited by NextGame, 01 March 2016 - 06:27 AM.